Muscatine

I care very much about people, too.  I care enough to want to educate and empower those who are capable of learning to care for themselves instead of expecting a hand-out.  That way, they can also help others one day.  To me, it's about teaching a man to fish, not just handing him a fish and sending him back to the end of the line for more, just to have more children while he waits, so he can get more fish the next time, and then teach, by example, his children, to do the same.  That is, by definition, generational povererty.  That's one of the many reason's I am against big gov.  It enables this.  That's also part of the reason I am a teacher. 

As for those that "budge" in line unfairly--or illeagaly in this case--it's all the way back to the end to wait fairly like everone else.  Or, better yet, help teach those behind you to help those behind them, and maybe stock the pond a little while they're at it, instead of standing there just waiting for the fish to jump out of the water.

I C your point.  U C mine? 

I not only see your point, I agree with it. My problem arises when we stop programs designed to help. You take away help and you're left with increased problems. Just as increased border control and a fence hasn't slowed illegal immigration, taking food (aka assistance) away from the hungary won't solve the issue. I agree that there has to be some kind of accountability for assistance. That accountability would be different for everyone. Where do we want to draw these magic lines to determine who gets what? I believe our system, as much of a mess as it is, is better then the option of not having one.

That's right, I said it.

Chosen and linlou, you are both wise beyond your years.  I agree with linlou.  If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.  If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for the rest of his life.  I also agree with Chosen.  In order to teach a man to fish, there has to be a person (or program) that shows him how to fish.  There has to be basic programs that help people get back on their feet and get their dignity back. 

I know there are several who abuse the programs, but they give a bad name to the rest who really are trying to better themselves.  Some of these people are caught in flawed system.  I have a relative who was on welfare, had two kids, had a minimum wage job and lived in low income housing.  She hated it, but in order to get her education paid for, she had to stay on welfare.  She couldn't make more than X amount of money or her benefits would be taken aware.  Without the education she got, she never would have been able to afford healthcare for her kids or been able to get off of government assistance. 

Yes, I am a liberal.  Not a bleeding heart liberal, but a liberal none the less.  I believe both parties have good ideas, I just happen to lean further to the left.  I believe in gun control, but not gun elimination.  I think the government should provide assistance, but should not provide total support for individuals.  Healthcare should be available and affordable to all, but not mandated.  I made an earlier reply to Herman that I think sparked linlou's reply.  That post was mainly for humor. I know the Republicans aren't completely to blame for the war.  There were some Dems that voted for it too.  And if the Dems were completely committed to ending the war, they could have done it by now.  They have the majority in Congress. 

Yes there are to many who get stuck on welfare.  But welfare is at flaw.  It all or nothing ,Case in point.  If you get a raise, they take away some of your food stamps so now the cash you earned is being spent on groceries.  So you sign up to further your education.  So you can get a better job. And welfare agrees they will pay your day care. Problem your classes start in January but your daycare  payments start in July, meanwhile you are working a full time job, 20 hour a week student strapped with your daycare bills.  You get paid every 2 weeks and 2/3 of your wages go for day care.  Now you have to be enrolled in school to qualify for daycare.  But it doesnt start on time,  Then about June 15 you get informed that the rules have changed and you no longer QUALIFY FOR DAY CARE HELP YOUR LAST RAISE PUT YOU OVER THE LIMIT.  You are behind on every bill you have!   Delima ,quit school to get another job?  Or quit working to get the daycare payment!  Meanwhile your $500 car just died.  And to get to work or school you have to buy a $200 car and put new brakes on it.  aND You HAVE TO REPORT THAT YOUR MOM GAVE YOU THE MONEY FOR THE CAR.  sO BECAUSE SOMEONE PAID ALL OR PART OF YOUR BILLS YOU GET DOCKED  Three weeks later it blowes an alternator.  $150.  Every penny you have eked out to get your self ahead is now gone and the money you were suppose to buy groceries with because they decided your nickle raise earned you to much money.  To get food stamps.  Is gone and you make tomato soup out of catchup  and water. so your kids have something to eat.  Further more if education was provided to teach welfare people how to budget, plan meals, shop for groceries.  And encourage  you to start a savings plan.  And a retirement fund. 

I watched a neighbor struggle for years on welfare.  I was in the grocery line just ahead of her when a man came up behind her started to put his groceries on the line and heard him say" OH this is the welfare line'  when he saw her foodstamps.  Picked up his groceries and went to another line.  Maybe instead of critising those who are on welfare for being there you could lend a hand instead.  I babysat many an hour just to help her get ahead and let me get a meal into those kids.  Offer to teach some one computerskills, take some kids fishing after all give a man a fish, feed him once.  Teach him to fish, feed him a life time.  Give one of those welfare leaches you talked about a hand and see what happens.