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G.M. and chrysler discuss merger

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DETROIT - Published reports say General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC have held preliminary talks about a merger or an acquisition of Chrysler by GM.

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The Wall Street Journal, citing people it described as familiar with the discussions, says Cerberus Capital Management, the private equity firm that owns 80.1 percent of Chrysler and 51 percent of GMAC Financial Services, proposed trading Chrysler's automotive operations to GM. The Journal says Cerberus would receive GM's remaining 49 percent stake in GMAC.

The New York Times, also citing people familiar with the talks, says the automakers were discussing a merger. The Times did not mention GMAC, a traditional auto lender hit hard by the housing market downturn.

Messages seeking comment left with GM and Chrylser by the The Associated Press were not immediately returned late Friday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081011/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_chrysler_merger_talks

This would not be good for chrysler...chrysler has been kicking butt with thier muscle cars, and i would hate to see g.m. screw that up with thier green crap! g.m. has done very little right in the last 10 yrs, like killing oldsmobile. g.m.'s quality and designs have really slipped over the years, even cadilacs quality has slipped. i currently have a 96 olds that runs, looks and drives like a new car, except it has 195,000 miles on it. Im not sure who g.m. is designing for anymore, but its a good thing thier quality is in the crapper cuz at least people will have to be buying new cars more frequently! which is why my new truck is a ford!

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Hey 1,

Much to their credit, our old truck is a Ford. The hubby did buy a 78 Chev. stepside that kept us outta the ditches that horrible winter, but all in all it had problems like any other. But we still have that 85 Ford. But thanks to economics and quality along with some faithlessness, he has Japanese engeneering in the driveway also.

But not getting the word regarding that merger ?, I'd like to know more. We considered a Dodge last year and as you say, that wouldn't be good for Chrystler. Just like the GE RCA merger wasn't good for RCA. GE crapola, for us anyway.

But a ditty regarding the "green era" GM is betting on. This we know: The trolly system of California held commuters heads up all through the turn of the century and well beyond the "Industrial revolution." Americans as a whole went from place to place via rail and trolly. Then came GM and Good Year. GM waged a secret war on Consumer America by buy the entire innercity rail system in collusion with California legislators(party specifics, both sides) and Good Year they shut it all down. Thirty plus years the recognition that a need for subdivisionary public transportation would be beneficial to all. So says GM. Especially those interested in making HUGE profits from that crafty design. Enter now Good Year's stake teamed up with GM and a multitude of sneaky representatives climbing aboard. And you kiss goodbye, a wonderful, efficient and less expensive, clean source of transportation for millions of commuter miles annually, even back then. This may be well known to you and others but to most, it is not. The Green system vanished, then GM and Good Year infiltrated the California dream and poisonned it with Thousands of Gasseous fume belching busses rolling on an endless stream of Good Year Tires. GM/Good Year won, environment/  consumers lost. That trend traveled all the way through the 90's and then came 2001. More on that point later.

1996. So now comes a plan to save the lungs of the choking people of California. The plan was simple and needed more than ever. The air quality of California was then as now, the wrost in the entire United States. So C.A.R.B. decided to pass a mandate that directed those auto manufacturers that wish to sell cars in the state of California, will have to offer no less than 10% of their on the lot products/units to be Z.E.V. (zero emmissions vehicles) Easy. So you'd think. But the car makers went ballistic. They sued to stop the mandate. Didn't work. Californians much like today wanted a change for the better, what ever the cost across the board. So C.A.R.B.(Californis Air Recources Board) headed by Allen Loyd, used EPA standards and consumer desire to get the bill passed. "Make it so Number One" as our son says frequently. Viola, every car co. built their version of a car that ran on electricity. Out of the bleak perception that it might work for a multitude of entities, there came from GM the EV1. There were 1700 built and although they had limitations by todays standards, they were a great success. GM did it! They produced a car that utilized a Nickle Metal Hydirde battery that afforded the consumer no less than the average daily driving miles, 90 or more so that 90% of all consumers needed to get from A to B. Not so great one might say? But really, stop and think about it. You drive every day. You drive to work, the store, the pharmacy to the park. Very few of US drivers travel further than 90 miles every day. But one little thing. This car would go 140 to 160 miles and would charge at home. at work or even with the help of the sun. A  facts that GM never told consumers in it's useless ads.

So then, considering that GM hated the mandate, they didn't promote the car as they would have aven a "go cart", they used the most absurd tactics for a much needed vehicle in any advertisement ever heard of. They left the consumer confused and in many cases even frightened to buy such a car. They leased the cars, no option to buy, they then went and put in faulty Delco lead acid batteries that severly limited the car's range to 40 miles that failed continually even though they had the batteries to make the car a great start if nothing else. Then they put Nicad batteries in the cars, that due to improper charging practices gave the car only 60-90 mile ranges. Then finally they installed the NMH batteries that they had all along, and the car was a terrific success. At least to those lucky enough to get one of the 1700 they leased. Finally came the friendly George W Bush administartion that also hated that... some bleeding heart Liberal team would have the audacity to force auto manufacturers into such a costly imperfect venture. Clean air, less oil consumed and  a revolutionary techknowlegy(that would have catapulted GM to the premeire, and most powerful industrail entity on earth) be damned. So, the Federal government under GW stepped in, deregulated and weakened EPA authority to help CARB kill a mandate and such "foolish regulations." Then GW set up a research fund of 1.3 BILLION dollars to resaerch hydrogen fueled vehicles. The vote came back with Allan Loyd the head of CARB mind you, and the deciding vote that killed the California ZEV mandate in 2001. Then to everyone's chagrin, Loyd resigned his position in CARB and accepted the head of GW's Hydrogen research project. Politics and Big Oil won again. But the worst is yet to come.

GM then took the techknowlegy they said was a flop and sold it! YES BOYS AND GIRLS, they sold it after buying it from the inventor/engeneer by the name of Wochensky(might be spelled wrong) after convincing him they would keep it. They sold it to TEXACO OIL now CHEVRON, for an undisclosed sum. Then they yanked back every one of those wonderful EV1 cars and crushed them all save one. But, not before assuring every one of us and those who faught for or actually knew about the cars, that they would be used in research, colleges, museums and not one part would be wasted for future use of the electric car industry. But they LIED. GM crushed and shreded all but one car that remains in a private collection, stripped of all it's vital(secret) electronic controlling components. Useless.

Lets not forget too,  that the bait and switch tactics used by GW and the 2/3rds repub congress, Allan Loyd and Gov "I'll Be Back" used to promote the killing of the mandate, is all too typical and that  hydrogen is but a pipe dream. Hydrogen will never replace, much less reduce to any dergree our rampant use of crude. Hydrogen must acheive six miricles to even begin to help reduce our use of crude. One, it has no natural earthly source so must be manufactured at the cost of 5 times that of equal energy from crude. TWO, Hydrogen requires a tremendously strong storage containment system and could explode easily in a crash.(remeber the Hindenburg) THREE, Hydrogen condenses and is nearly useless in cold weather. Four, There isn't enough starage capacity on a vehicle to get anywhere of distance, Five, the refueling infrastructure we must have would cost zillions and Six, The per unit cost to owners of hydrogen cars is currently a million dollars on average.

So now we understand?  GM colluded with Big Oil, The white house, Allan Loyd and our representaion (including McCain) to keep oil in our cars, trucks, ships, planes, tanks,  and so on. Gm opted to make an immediate untold fortune from Texaco, to help keep the starngle hold of oil on this nation. GM had it in the palms of thier slimy CEO hands. A real viable source of alternative cheap clean energy use that would have sent GM to the pinnacle of automobile  manufacturing and fame. Garunteeing that they would live beyond the next century. Allowing the millions upon millions barrels of oil used for  cars and light trucks that would have freed up that much more for the big rigs, the tankers. the jets and untold numbers of construction and heavy duty vehicles that will most likely always use oil aned cutting the costs to use them dramatically. Not to mention the cleaner air and reversal of global climate change. So isn't it clear by now just where we stand in the grand scheme of things where Corporate America and government has stood? So up until and when you go vote the 4th. Try to get more of the facts and let go all the mud slinging. Cut taxes, sure, but cut mine and like Mr. Corporate dude, I'll be happy too. Vote for the candidate that wants to turn back the clock of corporate exodus. Take away thier huge tax breaks and force a return of those millions of manufacturing jobs to US soil. That would fix many of our financial woes along with stiff regulation so these corporate thieves cannot rob us again. If we think otherwise then we do not care about the next coming depression.

 

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Ok im gonna take a bashing here on this stance, but im not for a "greener" car. I dont want to be forced into something thats ungodly to maintain.  my wife drives my aurora to work in west branch, it uses about 50.00 to 70.00 a week in gas. The aurora has a 4.0 liter v-8, when SHE drives it she gets around 22mpg, when i drive it i get usually 14. Two weeks ago i bought a 1992 ford f-150 4x4 with a lift kit and 32" tires, it gets approximately 6 mpg. Last weekend it cost me 12.00 to drive to wilton and back. I am catching hell from friends about this,. questions like why i would want something like this, i like the older body styles of the ford trucks. I like big vehicles, many years ago i was in an accident, i was in a tiny buick skylark , we hit a 77 cadillac head on. the buick looked like an acordian when we were done, the caddy had a bent bumper and a dented fender.I dont feel safe in a small car. I know that my car or truck will run as long as i find a gas station, frequently of course. i dont want to have to remember to plug a damn car in every night.

I realize that if al gore was in charge, as he recently said we need to be off oil in 10 yrs. Our technology has come a long way we have better diesel technology today than we did even 5 yrs ago. They burn much cleaner now. Volkswagen has a diesel car coming out with around 50 mpg. I think we need more diesels on the roads , the small ones get great mileage, and they are more reliable these days. The electrics and hybrids are gonna be way too expensive to maintain and i like the reliability of what i have now.

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Naw, you're fine,

Nothing to bash about, you're right to have personal preferences and desire to bend and crinkle a little less. All I was saying is that with the multitude of people now wishing they had a cheaper less polluting way to "get there" the skill and equipment has been here and gone a few times in this country. It's this duplicity throughout or corporate heads and representatives that I wanted folks to know about. We have so much to deal with every day in our lives as a nation entire, that we just do not hear about the avarice gone on behind those closed governmental and corporate doors. Our daughter was with a man for a period of time that owned... and she drove, a mid ninties Volkswagen Jetta diesel that got 50-MPG, and that was nearly a decade ago. She was so tickled even though it's fuel was much higher than gassoline. My husband was working with a design engineer a while back to take a reefer unit and adapt it to an 80's Ford Ranger. It worked well but seemd to have a transmission linking problem that they never did get worked out. But they estimated that had they the time and backing to take it back to the drawing-board, it would get apr. 60 to 70 MPG with a manual shift. But, that doesn't do much to lessen global weather issues. It's also true that every gallon of fuel burned regardless of effeciency, releases 19 pounds of carbon into the atmosphere. Mr Gore would be sad either way.

I love this old Ford. She isn't pretty any longer but she's all American and never fails to run even when the innards are all saying bad things when she's cold. I just love the Japper too though. Good mileage and OH SO COMFY. But what a pricetag to fix it. I'm actually on the outside of the mechanical relm here, so I cannot quite follow you on the litre side vs CID but it sounds big? So with that it seems to me that 22MPG isn't horrible?

I cannot go to bed with folks not realizing that the "green" EV1 was a comfortable, sexy, VERY low maintence and surprisingly affordable snappy car. It reminded those who were lucky enough and satisfied to drive one, of a Corvette. It maxed at 90 MPH to a distance of 140 miles and went from 0 to 60(standard meassurement they say) in less than five seconds, squeeking rubber along the way. They said the torque was at the wheels instantly so nothing was wasted and didn't falter up or down hills. That, they said was the same basics in power and stopping as every locomotive crossing this country every day. No sir Bobby! This car wasn't your typical green weiner. It worked and it worked well. Priced at or under $400.00 per month along with it's oilless innovations, it was a dream come true! I saw it, I watched this car run and run. It was so quiet and so fast you didn't see it coming and then WHIZZZZZZZ she flew past and whirred outta sight. Just as soon as it was becoming..................it was "Begone" I fully understand your points, but rest assured, this was no little green 'pooprod" SHE WAS A REAL CAR. The only issues it had in months of testing and consumer use was tire rotation and a blown air conditioning fuse that they fixed before it was ever leased out. Also the brakes were an issue in that when the mechanics went to check them they looked almost new. Yup, the locomotive-like Dynamic braking system used the car's innertia to help recharge and assist the car in stopping thus saving brake ware.

Texaco/Chevron sued three other auto manufactureres to keep thier versions from ever getting to US soil and won a multi Billion dollar class action suit against them, I think Tesla was one, Honda and Toyota. The claim was that they had violated the OIL co. intellectual property rights( a tiny little time difference between the sale of the battery system and implimentation in these other cars) by using the same batteries although improved, longer lasting than the original version Texaco bought from GM. Tesla is getting 300 miles per charge from the Lithium hydride version that the oil boys did not own, but legislaters have been keeping out of America's garages. The charging system was and is simple. A small converter for solar and a small panel for home charging that would have come with the car, was all one needed. You are obviously a smart person so......, just think of the possibilities. Just think of the ways we could already be saving oil, fuel, poisined air, coolants and run-off free waterways. These cars would get you to work, to the store/mall, the game, the park every day gas and oil free and every schoolage driver could pay for thier own insurance since they wouldn't buy a cent worth of gas( HUH? How about that mom and dad?) Nope this one was a biggie to let slip away. There was and still could be so much good to come out of that little jewel of a car, an idea and  reality. Now GM is trying to re-draw history with the new VOLT. It is paled in comparison to the EV1 since the only way the oil industry, who now owns two viable battery systems by the way, will allow their batteries to be used in American cars, is under Hybrid status. Yup, as long as you burn gas at least some of the time, it's OKAY to use that battery......... and, they won't allow them to be a plug-in hybrid either. No solar, no house current, just thier battery, gas and oil. But all that is changing fast. The cost of oil will either come down to pre Bush prices, or Americans will find a better, cheaper, cleaner way. Beleive it.

So in contrast to your last point of consern, the over all expense has been minimized by those wonderful thinkers who helped each other and GM put that amazing car together.

Later, and God Bless.

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